Brother in error...

[Salt & Light]

Salt & Light is said to be in error during a brief discussion on Wretched chat. Considering the discussion was about election it is not difficult to understand that there are differences of opinion on this issue. How long has the reformed church grappled with the election & predestination? 

[Kevin]

G'day S&L,
me thinks I'm butting in on an embrionic discussion here
I suppose the issue is rather difficult for most people/groups to agree on.

Nice to anticipate some discussion though......here's hoping.

Kevin

[Janeee]

I don't recall using the word error... rather, you did. I was just blown away after months of conversation to find that we weren't on the same page regarding the issue. I'm not sure now why I assumed we were...I guess I just never thought about it and until last night it never came up. 

[Salt & Light]

I don't recall using the word error... rather, you did.

Janeee,

You are correct. You did not use the word error, I did. I know that there was a misunderstanding and my assumption was that I was thought to be in opposition to your belief. I interpreted that as me being in error. My concern is that if I’m wrong I would like to come to the correct understanding. Are you willing to help me understand where our confusion is?

Thanks &
God Bless

[Kevin]

Well to take up the question: "How long has the reformed church grappled with the election & predestination? " Answer: How long has the reformed Church existed?

The problem as I see it is in way we apply the words election, foreknew and predestined.
It seems that the majority meaning or intent of the word election is simply choice and refers to choices, not so much of people, but of attitude or purpose. Consider Rom 9:11

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)

it is clear that the 'purpose of God' is the object of 'election' not the children. They are the beneficiaries, not the elected ones.  again in Rom 11:5

Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

  Here again, it is 'grace' that is subject to election, not those who benefit by that grace. looking further, Rom 11:27-28:

For this is My covenant with them,
   When I take away their sins.”
28Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.

The Covenant is the thing elected, not the people.
1Thes 1:4 refers to the election of people, so in a looser sense does 2Pet 1:10  The point about election of people is: we have to throw our hats in the ring to get a vote.
It seems to me therefore that to use 'election' in the context of preordination or predestination or even foreknowledge is to ignore the plain truth of the texts.

Now Predestine is a bit of as shocker!  It does not mean to set the future course of events; as in 'set in stone'.  That gives an entirely warped view of God's nature and purpose. When God 'Predestines' someone or something, He goes before....prepares the way...guides the voyage as it were, see it through.

Might leave 'foreknew' for future discussion   

God Bless,
Kevin